ASH候任主席Robert Negrin教授到访燕达陆道培医院，与陆佩华院长共探细胞治疗未来

河北燕达陆道培医院新院区的竣工与搬迁标志着其陆道培医疗集团医疗服务能力迈向新高度。值此之际，国际血液学权威、斯坦福大学血液与骨髓移植项目主任、美国血液学会（ASH）候任主席Robert Negrin教授到访，与带领陆道培医疗集团的陆佩华院长展开深度交流，双方围绕细胞治疗技术演进、CAR-T临床挑战与全球合作前景进行探讨，一致认为跨地域协作与学术共享是推动全球血液病治疗进步的核心动力。《肿瘤瞭望-血液时讯》特整理中外对话内容，以期为血液学及细胞治疗领域的发展提供兼具实践参考与思想启发的学术视角。

陆佩华教授

今年是陆道培集团发展具有划时代意义的一年，占地97亩的燕达陆道培医院新院区顺利竣工并完成平稳搬迁。借此难得的机会，我们深感荣幸，能够邀请到Robert Negrin教授莅临我院进行访问。Negrin教授是血液学领域享誉全球的权威学者，在过去二十年间一直担任斯坦福大学血液与骨髓移植科主任，并曾先后担任国际细胞治疗学会（ISCT）及美国血液与骨髓移植学会（ASBMT）主席。此外，Negrin教授即将于2026年就任美国血液学会（ASH）主席。其在血液学领域发表了多项具有重大影响的学术成果，为推动学科发展作出了卓越贡献。

值得强调的是，美国与中国是全球最具活力的两大医疗体系，双方在历史沿革、组织结构和规模方面既存在诸多相似之处，也各有特点。但无论体系如何，其根本宗旨始终如一——一切以患者为中心，致力于为患者提供最优质的医疗服务。在此，我们再次向Negrin教授致以诚挚的谢意。

Pro.Lu: This year signifies a turing point in the development of the Lu Daopei Medical Group: the new 97-acre Yan-Da Daopei Hospital campus has been successfully completed and the transition completed without disruption. On this momentous occasion, it is our distinct honor to welcome Professor Robert Negrin for a visit to our hospital. Professor Negrin is an internationally renowned authority in hematology, having served as Director of the Blood and Marrow Transplantation Program at Stanford University for the past two decades. He has previously chaired the International Society for Cellular Therapy and the American Society for Blood and Marrow Transplantation, and will assume the presidency of the American Society of Hematology in 2026. His extensive publications and transformative contributions have significantly advanced the field of hematology.

During his visit, we look forward to presenting our new campus to Professor Negrin. The United States and China represent the world’s two most dynamic healthcare systems. While historical development, organizational structures, and scales differ between our nations, both systems ultimately share the same fundamental objective: to deliver optimal care to our patients. Thank you very much.

Robert Negrin教授

今日深感荣幸能受邀莅临贵院，并与陆佩华教授共同见证新院区令人瞩目的发展。我曾多次到访贵院，去年亦曾来访，然而在短短一年内取得的进展仍令我惊叹。贵院是一座非凡的医疗综合体，集卓越的活力、优美的环境与顶尖的学术实力于一体。在我看来，中国——尤其在陆道培医院——所取得的跨越式进展，与我们的共同点远多于差异。我由衷为能参与其中感到欣喜。

正如陆教授所言，我们共同致力于探索如何更有效地治疗复杂血液系统恶性肿瘤，始终以患者临床获益为最高目标。我们之间不存在竞争，而是充满学术协作的伙伴关系。最令我印象深刻的是陆道培医疗中心所具备的技术能力，许多在我所在机构需外包完成的检测和治疗项目，在贵院均可通过院内平台独立完成，这种整合能力令人赞叹。

Pro.Negrin: First of all, it is a great honor to be here with Dr. Lu and witness the remarkable developments taking place at their hospital. I visited this hospital several years ago and was also here last year, and it is truly remarkable to witness the progress achieved within just one year. This is indeed an extraordinary comprehensive facility—a fantastic hospital brimming with vitality, aesthetic appeal, and scientific expertise. Therefore, when I come here and observe the remarkable advancements occurring in China, particularly at Lu Daopei Hospital, I find that the similarities far outweigh the differences. I am extremely delighted to be here. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we share the common goal of exploring effective treatment approaches for complex blood cancers and striving to provide better care for our patients. Hence, we collaborate closely. There is no real sense of competition; instead, the atmosphere is one of collegiality, and we work together on similar endeavors. What impresses me the most is the technological capabilities of the Lu Daopei Medical Center. At our own hospital, many of the tasks and services we offer to patients would be outsourced to other institutions, whereas here, most of these tasks are completed in-house within their own facility. It is precisely these exceptional capabilities that leave the deepest impression on me.

陆佩华教授

非常感谢您对我院的认可和支持。我也无比荣幸曾以Robert Negrin教授为导师，如今我们的情谊早已超越了传统师生关系的范畴。早年我在斯坦福大学Negrin教授的实验室中系统学习了CIK细胞等细胞治疗技术的基础知识，从那时打下的根基出发，如今我们医院在CAR-T细胞疗法上也走在了前沿。

Pro.Lu: Furthermore, I consider myself extremely fortunate and honored to have Professor Robert Negrin as my mentor, and our relationship has long transcended the mere teacher-student dynamic. My journey in this field began with learning about cellular therapies—starting with CIK cells (cytokine-induced killer cells)—in the laboratory at Stanford University. Under Dr. Rob Negrin’s guidance, I systematically acquired all the fundamental knowledge essential to this discipline. From that foundational stage, we have now advanced to the frontier of CAR-T therapy (chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy).

Robert Negrin教授

陆教授不仅是我的学生，更是当今全球细胞治疗领域最为重要的同行、合作者与领导者。每次来访都是相互学习的过程，这种平等的学术对话恰恰是推动医学进步的关键。

Pro.Negrin: Rather, I regard Dr. Lu more as a colleague who continues to teach me new knowledge and insights, especially given that he is now one of the world's leading experts in this field. For this reason, I have come here with the primary purpose of learning from her.

陆佩华教授

提到细胞治疗领域，其发展是一个涉及多层面的复杂议题。过去几年间，CAR-T细胞治疗技术日趋成熟，该领域的新进展与突破可谓日新月异。从最初的自体CAR-T发展到通用型CAR-T，进而推进至体内CAR-T技术；从CAR-T扩展到CAR-NK、CAR-巨噬细胞等新型细胞治疗策略；其应用范畴也从血液系统恶性肿瘤逐步延伸至实体瘤、自身免疫性疾病领域。近期更有研究论文指出CAR-T技术可能具有清除衰老细胞的潜力，或为抗衰老治疗提供新方向。足以见得这一领域既充满巨大机遇，也面临重大挑战。

过去十年来，本机构与多家CAR-T企业开展合作，共同推进多项临床试验，旨在使难治复发患者获得更有效的治疗选择。尽管目前仍存在诸多挑战，但我们期望通过持续优化最终降低治疗相关副作用，为患者提供更安全的治疗方案。我们始终向包括Robert Negrin教授在内的国际权威学者学习，借鉴其先进经验，以期更好地服务患者。

Pro.Lu: Well, this is indeed a lengthy and complex question. However, we have observed that CAR-T therapy has become increasingly mature over the past years, and we have witnessed numerous achievements and advances in this field even on a daily basis. The development of cellular therapies in this domain has progressed from autologous CAR-T therapy to universal CAR-T therapy, and it has now even advanced to in vivo CAR-T therapy. Beyond CAR-T therapy, the scope has further expanded to include other engineered cellular therapies such as CAR-NK (chimeric antigen receptor natural killer) cells and CAR-macrophages. Initially focused on the treatment of hematologic malignancies, the application of these cellular therapies has now extended beyond this realm to solid tumors, and it has even shown potential in the treatment of autoimmune diseases. We have also seen published research papers demonstrating that CAR-T therapy can clear senescent (aged) cells; perhaps, in the future, CAR-T therapy may even contribute to anti-aging effects. Nevertheless, it is evident that this field is filled with tremendous opportunities alongside significant challenges.

Over the past decade, our institution has collaborated with various CAR-T companies and conducted multiple clinical trials, with the hope that patients with relapsed and refractory diseases will be able to benefit from these efforts. Undoubtedly, there are still more challenges ahead, and we aspire to eventually reduce more of the side effects associated with these therapies and do more to improve the well-being of our patients. We are also learning from global experts such as Professor Robert Negrin, who is engaged in cutting-edge CAR-T research at Stanford University; we are drawing on all their valuable experiences, and once again, our ultimate goal is to continue doing more for the benefit of our patients.

Robert Negrin教授

科学研究的进展正是通过不断总结有效方案、分析失败原因并持续改进而实现。这一过程需要系统收集临床数据、追踪患者结局、运用科学研究方法解析当前面临的挑战。正如陆教授所言，我们需要通过反复迭代、开展更多临床试验、相互学习经验来实现技术优化。科学与医学的本质正是在这种迭代中发展：总结成功经验，摒弃无效方案，从失败中学习，运用技术手段深入分析患者反应机制。

以CAR-T治疗为例，目前治疗失败主要源于两大因素：其一是靶抗原丢失导致CAR-T细胞无法识别靶点；其二是T细胞耗竭现象。针对这些问题，我们正通过开发双靶点或多靶点CAR-T、采用健康供者来源的通用型CAR-T等策略予以改进。关键在于深入理解治疗成功与失败的机制，并据此优化治疗方案。

需要强调的是，无论患者来自美国、中国、欧洲或越南，其面临的临床问题本质相同。我们应当打破地域壁垒，加强国际合作与经验共享，通过学术会议等交流平台共同推动医学进步，这正是举办陆道培血液病学术大会等学术会议的重要意义所在。

最后我想说，诸位血液疾病领域及医学研究的年轻从业者，你们正投身于一项极具意义和价值的崇高事业。陆道培医疗团队正是领域内的典范之一——不仅拥有卓越的硬件平台，更汇聚了一群满怀热忱的引领者——从陆道培院士无处不在的远见与精神传承，到陆佩华教授等子辈所展现的榜样力量，皆令人深受鼓舞。置身此地，你们已站在世界学术舞台的中央，与全球同道并肩协作。我由衷地认为，能够将科学与技术转化为对患者的切实帮助，是职业生涯所能企及的最高成就。

Pro.Negrin: I believe Dr. Lu has covered all key points. In my view, this is precisely how we achieve progress: we identify effective approaches, pinpoint ineffective ones, and strive to make improvements. All of this is founded on collecting information and data, tracking clinical outcomes, and leveraging scientific principles to understand the challenges that lie ahead. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we continuously strive for better results—we iterate on our methods, conduct more clinical trials, learn from one another, and drive improvements. This is precisely how science and medicine advance: through an iterative process of embracing effective strategies, discarding ineffective ones, learning from failures, and utilizing technology to analyze patients in depth, thereby gaining a clear understanding of why treatments succeed for some patients.

For instance, we know that there are at least two primary reasons for treatment failure in CAR-T cell therapy. One is antigen loss, where tumor cells lose the specific target that CAR-T cells are engineered to recognize and attack. The second is T cell exhaustion, where the CAR-T cells themselves become functionally impaired and unable to sustain their anti-tumor activity. To address these challenges, we adopt multi-targeting strategies—developing dual-target or triple-target CAR-T cells—or utilize universal CAR-T cells derived from healthy donors, with the expectation that these donor-derived T cells will be less prone to exhaustion. In this way, we not only learn why certain approaches work but, more importantly, we analyze treatment failures to understand their causes and then refine our strategies for better outcomes.

I believe the most critical point here is that patients everywhere—whether in the United States, China, Europe, Vietnam, or elsewhere—face the same challenges in treating hematologic diseases. It is our collective responsibility to learn how to improve care, and this requires a global effort. We need to break down barriers, learn to collaborate, and share our experiences. This is why interactions like our meeting today, conversations between colleagues, and conferences such as the one we held last weekend are so vital—they enable us to truly share our insights and advance together.

As for the advice I would offer young physicians and scientists: this is an extraordinarily important undertaking, and you are in an exceptional environment. This institution and team are home to leaders who are deeply passionate about their work—a legacy rooted in Academician Lu Daopei, whose influence is pervasive here. The vision he embodies and the values he has instilled in his children, Peggy and Daniel, are truly inspirational. You are in a remarkable setting, surrounded by impactful advancements in the field, and you are part of a global effort to improve patient care. Honestly, I can say that pursuing a career in this field is one of the most extraordinary paths one can take. My message to young professionals is this: using science and technology to help people is an incredible endeavor, and there truly is no more meaningful pursuit than this.

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